That Reptile Blog That Pet Place Reptile Blog
Hello, Frank Indiviglio here. As a boy working for an animal importer in NYC, I was much taken by the first hatchling Common Musk Turtle (Sternotherus odoratus) I encountered. The minute, jet-black beast, much smaller than a baby Red-Eared Slider, was irresistible. Last month that very same turtle turned 41 (please see photo). So I am, of course, partial to the species, but there are actually very good reasons to keep this fascinating turtle and its relatives.
Description
This turtle rarely exceeds 4 inches in length (record: 5 3/8 inches); males average 3 inches. The highly-domed carapace is olive-brown to black and often algae-coated. The plastron is small, leaving a good deal of flesh exposed. The skin is gray to black, and there are two yellow stripes on the head and a pair of sensory barbels (fleshy protuberances) on the chin and throat.
Musk Turtles bear glands that can emit a foul-smelling secretion designed to deter predators. Fortunately, captives quickly abandon this habit.
Range
The Common Musk’s range extends from southern Ontario and Maine to Florida and west to southern Wisconsin and central Texas. It is one of the few turtles still to be found within NYC.
Habitat
The highly aquatic Common Musk Turtle favors the slow-moving waters of swamps, canals, farm ponds and river edges, but occasionally occurs in fast-moving streams.
Oddly, they sometimes climb trees to heights of over 6 feet when basking, aided by their small size and mobile legs (the plastron is much reduced). Musk Turtles sometimes surprise people by dropping into boats passing below basking sites!
Reproduction
Egg-laying occurs from February through June, depending upon the latitude, with mating concentrated in the spring.
The average clutch contains 2-5 eggs (range 1-9); 4 clutches per year may be produced in the southern part of the range. The eggs are deposited in a shallow nest (muskrat lodges are favored in some areas), within decaying logs, or below leaf litter. Several females may share 1 nest site.
The incubation period is 9-12 weeks; the tiny hatchlings measure ¾ of an inch in length. Sexual maturity is reached in 3-5 years for males and 5-11 years for females.
Diet
Although reported to eat plants on occasion, the Common Musk feeds mainly upon crayfishes, fish, carrion, insects, leeches, tadpoles and snails.
Hatchlings, vulnerable to predation due to their small size, are consumed by bullfrogs, fishes, giant water bugs, raccoons and other creatures.
Captive Care
As turtles go, Common Musks are quite simple to care for. Reptomin can comprise 50-60% of the diet, with the balance being supplied by other commercial aquatic turtle foods, earthworms and minnows.
While Musk Turtles occasionally bask, they differ from many other turtles in not requiring UVB light to synthesize Vitamin D. Along with Snapping, Soft-Shelled and certain other aquatic species, they can apparently obtain sufficient Vitamin D from their diets.
Please write in for further details on captive care.
Relatives
Twenty three species of Mud and Musk Turtles (family Kinosternidae, please see photos) are found from southern Canada to southern South America. They range in size from the Flattened Musk Turtle, Sternotherus minor, which rarely exceeds 4 inches in length, to the 15-inch-plus long Mexican Giant Musk Turtle, Staurotypus triporcatus. I’ll cover several species in Part 2 of this article.
Please write in with your questions and comments.
Thanks,
Frank Indiviglio
Further Reading
Video of a “droll” young Musk Turtle hunting.
Natural History of Musk and Mud Turtles.
Staurotypus triporcatus image referenced from wikipedia and originally posted by LA Dawson
Hello
I have a baby common musk, about 4 months or so. When I aquired him he was no bigger than a dime, now he is about an inch around. He was doing really well, ate like a champ, etc, but the past few days he is refusing to eat, and his activity has slowed dramatically. He even just floats around, not moving, to the point where I think he is dead, but then he moves. My question is, do captive musks go into a hibernation-type state in the winter, where everything slows down, or is he sick? Any advice you could offer would be greatly appreciated.
Hello Traci, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for your interest in our blog. Temperate-zone turtles often do slow down their feeding in winter, even if kept warm; but in my experience musks usually continue to feed and behave normally, except sometimes in the case of wild-caught adults.
A sudden change in temperature could spark this as well…what is the water temperature at this point?
Floating about is cause for concern, and may indicate a bacterial infection (gas released by the bacteria) or another problem. Cool temperatures (60’s) while fine for healthy musk turtles during winter, can bring on problems if something else is stressing the immune system. I now keep common musks at 75F all winter, after pneumonia almost killed an adult that had done fine for years at 64F.
A vet visit is your best option. Please let me know if you need help in locating an experienced reptile vet.
Good luck and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hi Frank,
Thanks for the quick response! The water temp right now is 73F. I’ll try raising it, as per your advice, and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks again,
Traci
Hello Traci, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, temperature is not likely the problem, as 73F is well-within their active range. I suggest you have the turtle examined by a vet…please let me know if you need help in locating one.
Good luck and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hello Frank,
Excellent article! If you recall that musk turtle I got last year-he’s still around and now about double the size he was when I first got him. I was curious about your above comment on temperature. The previous year I simply fed him less and allowed the temperature to drop to 60 degrees. That is how he is currently being kept at the moment. I’ve heard 60F referred to as a “death zone” in some literature-too warm to hibernate, but too cold for proper immune system function. Would it be reccomended to simply put the little critter outside and chill to, say, 50? Or bump up the temp as you are doing now?
Thanks!
~Joseph
Hello Joseph, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for the kind words. I haven’t had too much opportunity to test out the 60 F rule, but have always thought that it made sense for most temperate species. Common musks, spotted turtles and snappers seem to be exceptions, but these have such wide ranges that it still is a bit chancy. Animals originating the southern part of the range would likely not have the tolerance of those in the North, as has been shown for Carolina Anoles (north to south Fla) and, I believe, Eastern Box Turtles. Hibernating turtles in captivity is possible at 50 F or less, but risky. Unless needed for breeding (even then a less even drop often suffices) I would keep your turtle warm for the winter.
A Happy and healthy New Year to you and yours, Frank Indiviglio.
Dear Frank,
Hello again. I’m sad to report that the little guy didnt make it. I was all set to bring him to the vet tomorrow too. I think he may have had an infection of some sort. When I had found him, he had a small amount of damage to his shell, right behind the base if his neck, and possibly a small cut or abrasion on the ajoining skin. It seemed to have been healing beautifully, then within the past week (around when he stopped eating) the area of skin that was a little damaged started to turn red, followed by it starting to look like a bubble. It was also discolored (purple-ish). So I’m guessing that could have had something to do with it. If you’d like I can send you a picture. Maybe you can identify what that was. Let me know.
So thanks for your advice. Happy New Year.
Traci
Hello Traci, Frank Indiviglio here.
Sorry to hear the bad news; I wouldn’t be able to ID the exact organism involved fro a photo, but a bacterial infection was almost certainly involved. I may have been incubating for a long time – this is possible when turtle receive good care and their immune systems are working well. But a stress of some sort – temperature change or an opportunistic fungi or another bacteria species, can depress the system and allow the pathogen to get the upper hand.
Unfortunately, it’s difficult to treat a young turtle…even in zoos losses can be high.
Please let me know if you need anything in the future, and check in when you have a chance; I post new articles 2-3 times each week.
Happy New Year, Frank Indiviglio.
Dear Frank,
I received a musk turtle for Chirstmas and he is the sweetest thing. However, I have never kept a musk turtle before and would like to make sure I get his habitat set up correctly. I have 2 sliders and 2 box turtles currently and I understand the musk is a wader which I have never dealt with before. I am worried about how I should create a habitat that allows him to bask and to wade…I want to do what is best for him because I would like him to reach 40+ years old!!
Can you help?
Thanks,
Rae
Hello Rae, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for your interest in our blog and the kind words.
Musk turtles walk along the bottom and are not strong swimmers, but they do occur in both deep and shallow water. The trick to keeping them in deep water (as you might a slider) is to provide “structures” they can use to reach the surface, so that they need no swim all the time. I’ve found driftwood attached to a slate base, as sold for tropical fish tanks, to be ideal. Best to buy from a pet store rather than online, so that you can choose gently sloping pieces.
It’s important also to provide a place for the turtle to rest that is submerged, but within “neck-reach” of the surface. Musks will rest often on these, and tend to sleep there as well. Driftwood works well, or you can wedge cork bark against the tank’s walls, just below the surface. Smooth rocks/inverted clay flowerpots can also be used, but they cut down on usable tank space.
I prefer the above to very shallow set-ups (i.e. water just barely over the turtle’s head, as they are more comfortable with deeper water available and more space to move about in is a plus.
Not all will actually leave the water to bask, but always provide the option. Turtle Docks work well for smaller individuals; heavier adults are best given a Turtle Pier or piece of driftwood that breaks the surface.
Good luck and enjoy for decades to come! Please keep me posted and let me know if you need more info.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Im pretty sure i have a pair of common musk turtles, i recently bought them from a pet shop, but there were no identifying tags or otherwise. they were in a tank with some sliders and so i have been caring for them as such on spec, but would like to get it right. Whats throwing me is the sheer amount of contradictory descriptions. I’ve seen alot of photos tagged common musk with completely smooth shells, but mine have 3 very prominent ridges. they are identical to this photo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sternotherus_odoratus.jpg is this a common musk?
any help would be greatly appreciated.
all the best
eoin
Hello Eoin, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for the most interesting post..you raise a very good question.
The photo is a Common Musk, Sternotherus odoratus. The distinguishing feature is the presence of barbels (tiny sensory “bumps” or protrusions from the skin) on the chin and throat; in all other musk turtles, they occur only on the chin.
The keels are interesting…most Common Musk Turtles have only 1 that is distinct, with the others being reduced or absent. But some specimens have 3 very distinct keels, as in photo. They will flatten out as the animal ages. Loggerhead Musk Turtles, S. minor minor have 3 distinct keels but lack the throat barbels and distinctive facial stripes of the Common Musk (they are also only rarely seen in the pet trade.
Net descriptions range from excellent to useless, as you’ve seen; the Audubon or Peterson Field Guides are useful resources…and of course you can always write in, I enjoy “detective work”!
Well, I’m glad you are interested in these turtles…so many unique species. Please see this article for more on other mud and musk turtles.
Please let me know if you need further care info.
Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hey eoin again. Thanks for the quick response. Since finding this blog ive been treating Prometheus and Bob(claymation series from when i was young. very funny) as common musk turtles (i think…… i am new to turtles). I’ve left their main basking area slightly submerged, ive re-directed the filter so the flow in the tank leaves the majority of it fairly slow moving. ive also increased the volume of water in the tank (i was initially worried they would drown as they didnt display any aptitude for swimming, prefering to walk along the bottom stretching their necks to breath rather than swim to the surface). Overall the boys seem delighted with all the extra swimming space. Prometheus has taken to sitting in the upper branches of a plastic plant when resting, and Bob, oddly as he is more shy prefers the higher flow area of the tank although this could be a size thing. bob is slightly smaller and the water heater is in that area. These guys are brilliant and id recommend them to anyone. full of personality and great fun to watch. They dont seem to like being handled (although at meal times they swim to my hand for transport to their feeding bowl) prometheus has done his stink gland thing in my hand to emphasise his displeasure (thought it was just gas before i found out i had a musk turtle). Very entertaining for those in the room, however i was less than impressed, that smell would knock ya, very surprising from something so small.
If you have time Frank i have a few additional questions.
1) im in Ireland and at the minute daylight is only from about 9 am until 4:30pm and at that its fairly overcast. ive read the musk is a nocturnal turtle and so doesnt need to bask in the same way as other species. do these guys need a UV lamp.
2) They are about the size of a matchbox. How much and how often do i feed them
3) i read they naturally grow algae on their shells. do i need to physically clean them? this seems to really stress them (biting, stinking etc). if i do how often.
4)the underside of bobs shell is yellow with some brown colouring (stains?) toward his rear. But on the other guy its almost all that brown colour and only yellow on the edges. is this normal, or is it dirt, infection? they show no signs of illness, lively responsive, feeding well.
Thanks a million for your help. Im very glad you posted this blog as i was really having trouble identifying these little guys. not very common at all in the irish pet trade it appears.
All the best.
Eoin
Hello Eoin, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for the feedback; glad it is working out. Nice names…we have a Prometheus Moth here, check out a photo on net, they are quite impressive.
Oddly, they are not popular here in the US either…not sure why. They are among our most common turtle in many states…I’ve even found them in park ponds in NYC! Interesting to know that they have found there way into the trade in Ireland, thanks.
Good idea to move them when feeding…helps greatly with water quality; as you sat, they do not enjoy handling; they usually stop musking in time, but mine will still bite, after 41 years, if I take to long in transferring her.
In time you can try adding a completely dry area – driftwood attached to a base, sold for use in tropical fish tanks, works well if you can find it. They will cling to the wood below the water and some will leave to bask. Suction cup platforms are useful also.
They do not need UVB, but be sure to provide a varied diet, lots of whole fishes, earthworms and a good quality commercial pellet do that they get enough Vitamin D; a UVB bulb might be good as insurance, but not necessary.
Normal light cycles, short in winter, longer in summer and average room temps are fine, as they are native to temperate areas in N America. Some populations are nocturnal, probably where they are disturbed, but in other areas they are out by day. Captives usually become active by day.
Feeding depends a lot on temperature, but they are very adaptable and adjust their metabolisms according to supply. Hatchlings eat often when kept at 25 C or so – you can feed every other day, or small meals each day, or large meals 3x week – I vary the routine, and have never had any problems.
No need to remove algae unless they have a problem such as a shell injury. The colors you describe are most likely natural variations.
I hope yours live for many decades, and that you breed them in time. Please check in with updates or any questions when you can,
Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hello – I have a new baby turtle(maybe three months old) and from the descriptions and pictures he may be a baby musk, but doesn’t have very distinct yellow stripes on his face (or her face) – but there is some yellow on the face and around the edge of her back (shell – sorry I am learning and don’t know all of the “right” words for the body parts yet)… I have been giving him box turtle pellets and dried bug/ veggie mixture (added to water so it is soft) – but he doesn’t seem to eat much. His favorite time is spent in a “turtle bath” when we put a little bit of warm water in the bottom of a dish and add a couple of drops of vitamins (bottle vitamin liquid for birds – another site recommended this for cloudy eyes) and he will play in that water and drink that water – he loves it
Which is why I started researching what type of turtle he is again – because everything I read about box turtles didn’t sound like this. Know I am thinking a change of environment and diet may be necessary. He/she is so sweet and I really want to provide the best care.
Do you have any websites you would recommend for me to make sure this is a musk turtle – can I send you pictures? I will go home and look at the chin/ throat today, but it is so little it may be hard (it is under a quarter in size – and that is bigger than he was when he came in). Any advise you can share with a novice would be greatly appreciated – this little turtle has stolen the heart of my family and we are definitely hoping for 40+ years together
Thank you,
Jennifer
Hello Jennifer, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for your interest in our blog. It is very important that you identify the turtle accurately, as the needs of each vary greatly. It may be one of the musk turtles, as few other hatchlings are as small as you describe. Most are in the Sternotherus, here is a link to photos of each species (click twice on each). Please feel free also to email photos to me at findiviglio@thatpetplace.com.
Once we identify the turtle, we can discuss care
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2458735/Photo0724.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2458735/Photo0723.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2458735/Photo0722.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2458735/Photo0721.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2458735/Photo0720.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2458735/Photo0719.jpg
@jennifer- Above are photos of my baby musk turtles(sorry cell camera is rubbish) I hope they help in identifying yours . Frank is great, the little guys couldn’t be happier since I started following his advice, you have come to the right place:)
Hello Eoin, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks so much for taking the time to send the photos, and for your kind words! I’m glad to hear that your turtle is doing well; hope spring is coming to Ireland soon, tired of winter here…
Enjoy and please keep me posted,
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Thank you both – I have emailed a few pictures to Frank… I think she may be a her – the tail is shorter. She was a rescue – the people who took her in found her outside their office in the middle of a strip mall with egg shell still on her – they feared for her with all of the birds, cars, snakes and other dangers around (not to mention humans who could have stepped on her).
I will try to get some better pictures out as soon as I can take them… she’s a little camera shy
Hello Jennifer, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks…I looked at the photos and it is a common musk turtle. Please let me know if you have enough info to set up the aquarium and provide a proper diet, or if you need any help. Where was the turtle found?
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hi! Just as an update we have changed the environment (added a little rock dish as a mini pond (since she is so tiny still) and she LOVES it. She spends most of the day in the water and then crawls onto her rocks occasionally. She also LOVES her new food! We bought some of the RepMine (spelling?) food for aquatic turtles and she is actually eating… she looks forward to being fed – it is so cute!
Thank you for your help and great advise!
~Jennifer
Hello Jennifer, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks very much for the update…glad the turtle is now feeding.
It would be best, however, to set the turtle up in an aquarium with 3-4 inches of water and basking area (basically an entirely aquatic habitat with a dry basking area). Despite the small size, they are capable swimmers. A sloped plastic ramp makes an ideal land area as it is smoother on the plastron than rocks, does not take up swimming space and is easy to climb. A submerged smooth rock or driftwood, situated so it is within an inch or so of the surface, should be added as another resting spot.
A water bowl alone is not sufficient – waste products build up and the small size of the area will restrict movement and impede growth.
Reptomin is great as base diet. Be sure to add small whole fishes (i.e. guppies)…very important as a calcium source. Earthworms, blackworms, dry prawn and crickets should be given on occasion as well.
Good luck and please let me know if you need further information.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hey there, my name is Robert. I have questions about my tank set up! Let me know if you can see any problems with this:
I purchased two young turtles last month (turtle 1 a bit smaller than a quarter, and turtle 2 about the size of dime) for 200 dollars. (I live in canada; they are rare here.)
I took them home too their 55 gallon aquarium. I filled the tank filled with 15 inches of water. The water temperature is 81 degrees cosntant. They have a floating land area which they sometimes use. (the common zoomed suction cup land thingy) Air temp 70-80 deg room temperature. I was told that they do not need a heat light, is this true?
I have a t5 48 inch long light fixture with a zoomed light bulb and a regular aqarium light bulb for athetics. I keep 20 cardinal tetras in the tank, they eat the turtle waste and do not “seem” to bother the turtles. Also there are lots of tall plants so the turtles spend most of their time about an inch or two under water. They seem to like eating on or at least chewing on Anubias. Non toxic… as far as I know.
Anyways they are both eating, but I have a problem! One of my turtles has grown about half a centemeter since I got it; it’s scales are now slightly seperated and very well defined. It is a veracious swimmer and comes running at me everytime I get near the tank… he “seems” healthy. He’s showing rapid growth. He is now twice the size of the other turtle. On the other hand the second turtle (dime sized one) is growing very slowly and the scales on his shell were overlapping heavily when I got him… they still overlap quite a bit and it is hard to tell if he is growing at all. He also eats about 1/3 the food the other one eats… He tends to stay at a deeper water level, sometimes even venturing to the bottom. However he is very innactive most of the time… he just grabs onto a plant and floats for hours. This worries me slightly.
The big turtle loves eating nutrafin pelets with vitam d3… the second one has eaten them once but generally will not touch them. The only thing he will eat is bloodworms and krill. I am very worried that these foods do not provide the nutrition level he needs. How can I get him to eat a more balanced diet!!!! please help!!!!
~Robert (yes I actually spent 200 dollars on two musk turtles… they ussually go for even more out here…. so I do worry about their health quite a bit lol)
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for your interest in our blog. Sounds like you are on the right track…a 55 will allow them to grow to adult size, good choice.
Your temps are fine…you might try putting a 25-40 wt incandescent bulb over the basking ramp, or above the plants where they stay, in case they want to bask…many do not, but good to give them the option. Most I’ve kept have tended to leave the water when temps topped 80 F; however 81 is ok, my temps routinely top that in the summer. Drop it to 75-78 if they do start to stay on land often.
Plants are a good idea in deep tanks, musks tend to use them as “ladders”..otherwise, hatchlings (yours are likely 6 months or so of age) they expend too much energy surfacing for air. Odd that they are eating Anubius, I’ve not run into that, thanks for the observation; it is fine, used as a food for painted and other turtles.
Fishes are good to have in the tank; Corydoras cats/weather loaches very good scavengers as well. Turtles may chase them in time.
Growthrates/activity levels vary a great deal; adult females are quite a bit larger than males, but I’m not sure that differences in growth show up so early (probably not); you might try moving the smaller one to a bucket (add plant cover) for feeding. Krill is good as up to 25% or so of the diet, but try to get both to eat small whole fishes (guppies, minnows, goldfish on occasion but not solely) and earthworms. Live blackworms, sold as tropical fish food, are great. All 3 of these usually tempt reluctant feeders. Avoid live Tubifex. If the Nutrafin is formulated for fishes, then I’d suggest switching to Reptomin as a basis of the diet. Trout chow, if available, smells very “fishy” and usually attracts them…it is also a good staple despite being formulated for fish. It’s hard to tell if an illness is involved based on what you describe; but if the turtle is feeding then it is likely fine. You can keep them hungry to encourage them to try new foods; no danger at all to skip a few days.
As for the price…well, I spent $30 for a skunk (in 1969!) and now they are running all over parts of NYC, including upper Manhattan, so who am I to judge! However, Common Musks are native to parts of Canada (they range into Ontario) so it does sem a bit odd. That being said, they may be with you for many decades, can be bred, and are very interesting to watch, so….
Keep track of their growth rates if possible…despite the “common” part of their name, not all that much work has been done on them. Because they are in such a large tank, you have a great opportunity to learn much about their behavior, breeding and growth rates.
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
lol the water is actually about 20 inches deep not 15!…. I checked. Is this too deep? They spend almost all their time in the top 5 inches.
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for the feedback. I’ve not seen problems with them, but hatchling snappers, which share a similar swimming style/habitat, decline in condition when kept in deep water. Watch that they are using the plants and not continually paddling about.
Typically they are bottom dwellers…perhaps lower water to 4-6 inches for awhile and see if this improves the situation, allows the smaller one to grow because it is not expending so much energy. They will bask and rest at the surface, but should spend most of their time walking along the bottom. You will still be giving them plenty of room, and can increase depth in time.
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hello Frank,
thank you for the fast response. I really appreciate you sharing your experience as this is the first turtle I have ever kept. I wanted a turtle for years but would not settle for anything less than a musk turtle lol.
Anyways I have some more questions and observations that I would like to share with you if that is okay. When you mentioned disease as a possibility I got a shiver down my spine as I saw a few red flags before purchase.
The conditions the pet store kept them in were a little alarming… a small 10 gallon with about 15-20 turtles! They were literally crawling on each other. The tank was 90 percent land and had a mountain of smelly krill which did not look exactly fresh. He said it was the only food they ate. I will keep a sharp eye on them. Is there anything I should be looking out for disease wise?
Seeing as how the smaller turtle is much less active than the bigger turtle I worry a bit. I do catch him moving/swimming everyday and he is eating everyday. Just much less than the larger one. He usually 1/4 as the big turtle and swims about half as much. However he does venture onto the bottom sometimes, something my larger turtle will never do.
Can you overfeed turtles? My large one literally gorges himself on food, eating 8-9 food items the size of it’s head.
Their color patterns are also quite different, the small one has spots/strips with a light brown, almost yellow, and slightly spiky shell. The larger one does not have spots or stripes on neck (only it’s face). It’s shell and skin are very dark, almost black. Does color provide any indication of sex/health? He also has a smooth and highly doomed shell. Are these differences just due to size?
After reading your post I put the small turtle in a sandwich box and fed him dusted 2 week old crickets. He seems to like eating these. Are crickets a good option to vary their diet?
I was wondering if you knew how to sex a musk turtle? Is it possible to sex them at this size?
I didn’t know they were capable of floating. This comes as a big surprise to me; when mine stop swimming they sink or grab onto a plant. They tend to spend 70- 80 percent of their time hanging onto plants a few inches underwater, usually plant stem. They seem reluctant/ scared to swim to the bottom, especially my large one. The larger one will never climb/swim deeper than 12 inches. Should I be concerned about this behavior?
I would love to lower the water, however I have a problem. Because of my hang on filter, when the water level is lowered the splash causes strong water flow… my pond becomes a river. It seems to bother the fish and the turtles have a hard time swimming. Any suggestions on reducing the splash from the filter?
Also another observation I’ve noticed is that they like to dive! They seem to enjoy climbing on the floating land which has a ramp and sticks about an 1.5 inches out of the water and jumping off in a dramatic way. Sometimes the larger one jumps into the water backwards and kicks off was his back legs. He sinks about 10-15 inches, often with his back legs tucked in before he flips right away up. Then swims right back to his floating land to do it again! They seem to make a game out of this. Once the larger musk turtle starts the smaller one begins to follow. The smaller turtle follows the big one around sometimes and they are usually near each other. Even though they have a big tank they usually near each other and always sleep together.
My turtles also seem to hate being handled out of water… they get really scared when I take them out of their tank. Surprisingly they are very interactive with with me when I clean the tank, especially the big one. They swim around my hand/arm excitedly and seem to allow underwater handling. If I scoop one up underwater it grips on to me and looks right up at me in a curious way and often climbs around my fingers,poking its head in and out of it’s shell looking for food. If I take them a few inches out of water they jump off my hand after a few seconds. They also seem to have become much stronger swimmers since I got them, I feel that this is a good sign.
They are very fast learners and know exactly when feeding time is. They will actually get so excited around feeding time that if you go near the tank they swim right up and furiously kick against the glass. Trying to get to you. It’s always funny watching them try to push each other out of the way as they follow around my finger. It is really quite amusing.. I will definitely switch up their diets. I’m also planning on adding a small heat light tomorrow.
According to a somewhat outdated biology book I have from grade 11 mud turtles are very aggressive, and males will kill each other. Is this true for musk turtles?
I hear they are native to Canada, but I have looked and looked and never found any while herping.
Thanks again, – Robert.
My tetras are showing signs of ick. Can turtles catch this parasite? Are their any medicines I could use that will not hurt the turtles?
I want to lower the water in the tank but I have a hang on filter. The filter creates lots of water flow when the water is lowed. Do you have any suggestions to fix this problem?
The larger turtle also has a different looking face with noticeably larger proportioned eyes. Do you think there is any chance it has an eye infection? Also it is getting fat, is this going to hurt the turtle?
Thanks again!
~Robert
Just an update for you…
I took your advise and lowered the water, it’s now at 14 inches deep. I ended up just adding a small zoomed land dock directly under the filter flow. This has reduced water flow quite a bit as it crashes down on the dock and flows off rather than hitting the water at full speed. The tank now has 300 percent filtration.
I also measured the tank and it is actually 42 long x 18 wide x 20 high. I believe that makes it a 90 gallon.
~ Sorry for spamming your blog, and thanks for the advice~ Robert
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
You are asking all the right questions, and hitting many points that most folks miss…a think you have a bright future as a turtle owner.
The pet store situation you describe is, unfortunately, common. Most turtles carry some form of Salmonella…generally it does them no harm unless they are sick with something else…crowding can be stressful, but as your turtles are feeding they are probably fine (feeding usually stops when they are ill)…however, you should take precautions to safeguard your own health when caring for any animal. Always wash your hands well, and never clean items used with animals in sink used for food preparations. You can read more about precautions here.
Color and marking vary greatly, so what you’re seeing is just normal differences among individuals. Crickets are a good food item; almost any insect will be taken; majority of the diet should be reptomin or a similar food, earthworms and small fishes.
Cork Bark can be wedged between the sides of the tank, below the filter outflow, to cut down on current (as you noticed, they do not do well in fast currents, good point). There are also a number of submersible filters that can be used in very low water levels.
Great observations on diving etc…diving is an escape response, and most turtles that bask are very good at it. It could be a form of ”practice”,…young birds and mammals do so, but we know little about the process in reptiles. Save as regards what looks like play…several zoos have reported that turtles seem to do this, but we do not understand much about it; please continue to watch and take notes – anything you learn could be of great value. As you’ve seen, they are very good at predicting feeding times; actually turtles have well-developed learning abilities, and again we need more info. You might like this article on Tortoise Learning Abilities.
Musk hatchlngs are not comfortable out of water…almost every local predator eats them – bullfrogs, large fish, other turtles…even giant water bugs, so they tend to be shy and hide. Interesting that yours stay together – perhaps safety in numbers, but there are no real studies on this…good op for you to add to what we know.
As for aggression, adult males sometimes fight, and pairs are hard to keep together as the male will continually harass the female by trying to mate (true for many turtles). Sex cannot be determined until they are fully grown..until then they should do fine together. Some species are extremely aggressive – Mexican Giant Musk Turtles are about 14 inches long, and almost impossible to breed as they fight so much; please check out my article on other musk/mud turtle species.
They are very hard to find in the wild, even in places where they are common. I have only found them by seining through weeds along the shoreline…mostly young ones.
Well, I think you have some interesting times ahead!
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for the note; amphibians can contract ick but turtles do not seem to get it. Standard tropical fish medications are usually fine to use with turtles, but I am just going by experience…no real tests have been done. I have used Acriflavine, which is a fish medication, to treat fungus in turtles, and have had good results.
You can use cork bark or a submersible filter to cut water flow…please see last comment for product links,
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
Eye infections usually show up as puffiness around the eye – it appears swollen, and often the turtle cannot open the eyes…please let me know if this is what you think is happening.
Sorry, I missed the feeding question in your earlier post…turtles can get overweight, but its usually more of a problem with adults…young ones tend to put it into growth. However, you can cut back to 3-4 food items, and skip 1 or 2 days each week; turtles will always “act” hungry, but it is good to give them a few fast days. Also 81F is a bit on the high side…it is ok, but speeds the metabolism; if you have a heater, lower if to 75-76. Even in the southern part of the range, the turtles are not often in 81 F water (they can move to deeper water to cool off)
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
You came to a variation of the same solution I sent (cork bark)..good job! 90 gallons is quite a mansion for them…I think it is an ideal situation. Not spam at all! I wish more folks would show such interest in their animals…I’m going to save your questions as examples for others to follow…please also keep me informed on your observations. This is what I have always been involved in and enjoy..never hesitate to write in, ok?
Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hi Frank,
Thank you answering my questions! I re-posted some of the same questions because I thought I had lost them/did not get saved somehow lol.
I guess they were just w8ting to be approved. After a quick visit to my local vet I did a massive water change and lowered the water temp down to 77 as advised. I then went on to treat my larger turtle with eye drops. The vet sold me generic tortoise/turtle eye drops that have a weak lubricant/disinfectant as well as a dose of vitamin A. My local vet advised me to do this as preventative measure. This was no easy task because the dropper was the size of it’s face! I had to push out a tiny amount of solution (1/4 of a drop?) and then gently touch that gob to each eye.
I removed the fish that were infected with ick and put them in a hospital tank for now, they seem to be doing better.
Great suggestions, I will definitely follow through on all of those! (especially the feeding routine for my little fatty lol) So basically you have to keep the water cooler and keep their basking spot warmer right? Is 85 def okay for their basking spot?
~Thanks again, I’ll keep you posted.
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
Eye drops are a good idea; I’m glad you took the trouble to find a good vet.
Yes, cooler water and basking about 85 is good…this lets them thermoregulate – change from warm to cooler.
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hey Frank, just a quick update for you on my musk turtles.
The musk turtle’s eyes looked much smaller this morning! I’m very confident the vet gave me the correct advice.
Water quality is ammonia 0, nitrate 0, nitrite 15… I wonder how he hurt his eyes… I hope it’s not the water. Is there a specific ph/gh they like to be kept at? If so I do can purchase buffers and test kits for those. I saw a chemical today at petsmart that supposedly hardens turtle shells. Is this a good supplement to put in the water? Any ideas on how my turtle hurt his eyes? I’ve been watching carefully trying to figure out how it happened. I actually moved my kitchen table up to the tank and set up and observation desk lol… my girlfriend wasn’t too pleased about that when she came home. 
Musk turtles are so fascinating, I can watch them for hours and continuously have new things to write down in their log.
Thanks again, Rob
Oh I forgot to mention feeding my last post. I got turtle pellets, I made sure to get the one that had fish as the first ingredient. The small turtle hates pellets as it cannot chew them up hard.. So I soaked them in water for 5 minutes and then hand fed him half a pellet at a time. After about 10 minutes with him in his feeding container he accepted the pellets!!! He will not eat fish! I pre-killed a baby guppy and he would not accept it…. perhaps the fish was too big/wrong kind? Any thoughts?
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for your feedback. Eye infections can occur in many ways, generally via bacteria that are always present in the water and attack at the right time. Ph is not very important for musk turtles (more so for softshells)…as long as it is not very acidic or very alkaline, you’ll be fine. 7 is good to aim for, but not critical as with fish and amphibs.
No need to use water-based supplement. Provide then with lots of whole fishes and krill, which is a more effective way of adding calcium to the diet.
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks …soaking is a good idea, releases scent and easier to break up. Musks invariably take fish in time, and it becomes a favorite. It may be too small to attract attention…adult guppies fine; it’s good for them to tear into their food, keeps the beak/jaws from becoming overgrown. Keep the turtle hungry for a few days and see what happens. A live fish in among some dead ones may attract the turtles attention as well.
Anything new takes time – if you ever to introduce new foods to a toddler, you’ll wish they were as easy as turtles!
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hi, Frank,
Okay so I thought of a feeding routine, let me know what you think. Whole krill twice a week, fish 3 times a week, a few pellets every other day, and one day with no food.
I have three questions for you:
Are cuddle bones a good idea? Are feeder gold fish okay to use? What is your opinion on mixing turtles species? I was thinking that maybe when my turtles grew to about 2 inches I would add a map turtle or perhaps a female razor back musk turtle. If mixing turtle species is okay what type of turtle would you recommend? ( I want to take advantage of my expensive lighting by adding a basking species in the future)
Let me know if you need any photos/videos of my tank for your blog!
Hello Robert, Frank Indiviglio here.
Good questions. The schedule is very good. I would add 1 more fast day every week or so, no need to be too regimented on that…skip a day after most of the fish feedings, as they take longest to digest. Add insects, earthworms, etc when available.
You can leave cuttlebone for them to chew; not all turtles will, and I’ve not found it necessary, but can do no harm.
Goldfish can be used, but only on occasion, maybe once each 10-14 days. A steady diet of goldfish has been linked to several nutritional diseases in Mata Mata turtles; not fully understood. Minnows and shiners, if available, are best – they are raised in outdoor ponds, consume a varied diet and so very nutritious. Guppies, platies and such fine also.
Mixing is ok in some circumstances; best not to add turtles from another continent, as micro-organisms they carry may be rather harmless to themselves but deadly to related species (similar to tourists getting sick by drinking water in a foreign country). Most basking species will be more aggressive feeder, so you’ll need to monitor food intake of all. Maps are wonderful, many interesting species, but best to get adults that can be sexed. Males of most species top out at 5 inches, females may reach 12+; could work, but might be crowded – also large turtles tend to tear up a tank, hard to keep clean. Same for Painted turtles – males average 5 inches, females larger. Spotted Turtles are small (both sexes similar, 4-5 inches), bask, but can be quite expensive (some breeders successful now, so prices may drop). Bogs even smaller, but hard to find as captive bred, and expensive. Razorbacks very interesting, but same habitat as common musks.
I’ll let you know if I need photos in future, thanks,
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hey man I just got a baby common musk turtle a couple days ago and I just wanted to know if all this sounds good to see if im on the right track. The temperature of the water is about 75 F, hes in a 20 gallon with water low enough for it to reach its neck to the surface and plenty of plant cover. I also have another question, when i got him/her its shell looked like it may be in shed. what should it look like if it is in the process of shedding? if you could answer these questions i’d really appreciate, thank you.
.mike.
Hi frank.
Eoin here again. Prometheus and Bob say hi. Im in the process of upgrading their habitat to a bigger Tank. See if i can burn off some of that energy so they wont be so inclined to playfully disfigure anyone attempting to handle them : ). Quick question. Under gravel filter? Worth the Expense? They tend to make a real mess of their substrate given enough time so its that or more regular gravel cleaning. Or can you suggest an alternative i havent thought of. Thanks for you time. Love the blog.
Eoin
Hello Eoin, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for the update; nice to hear from you again. My musk has been with me since hatching 41 yrs ago, and still bites on occasion!
Gravel complicates cleaning a bit where turtles are concerned, although it is nice, especially with smaller animals., An undergravel filter won’t lessen gravel-cleaning chores (you’re using a siphon-based cleaner, I’m assuming?); if anything, you may need to do it a bit more. Wastes are sucked down into the filter bed and detoxified (ammonia –nitrite-nitrate), but fine sediment remains and should be periodically removed. Reverse flow systems are available, but with these it is best to use a standard filter as well. Turtles produce a great deal of waste – a UG can handle it once well-matured (stocked with bacteria); I’ve done it, but it takes time. Best to seed with gravel from a matured tank, or try adding bottles aerobic bacteria. The nice thing about them is that there are no filter mediums to change, only gravel cleaning, which must be done anyway.
Feeding the turtles in another enclosure – bin or bucket – helps a great deal. Please see this article.
Also useful are ovation submersible filters or similar models, or the Zoo Med Turtle Cannister.
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
We have a musk turtle for over a year now. He has stayed the same size ( a little bigger than a quarter)
Is it possible for him to be some type of dwarf?
thanks,
Lisa
Thanks for your interest in our blog. The is a species, the Flattened Musk Turtle, that reaches only 4 inches in length, but they are not common in the trade. Assuming yours is a common musk, it should have grown a bit. Please send me some details on diet, tank size, temperature etc. and write back with some ideas. Please see this article for info on other types of Musk Turtles.
Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Thanks Frank,
He lives in our tank (40 gallon) with water in 75-78 range. We have the UV light on 4-5 days a week. (he shares the tank with a painter turtle) Both these guys were about the size of a quarter when a year ago. Of course the painter is now the size of a palm and the musk is still the size of a nickle-quarter. (maybe increased up to 1/2 inch)
We typically feed variety of commercial turtle food (including dried shrimp, crickets, pellets, and some minnows during summer months. (we live in Michigan area)
hope this helps.
Hello Lisa, Frank Indiviglio here.
Thanks for the feedback. Your set-up and diet sound ideal (I’m assuming the pelltets are designed for aquatic turtles). Earthworms are a very good item to add.
Perhaps the painted turtle is out-competing the musk; maybe getting most of the food, or more of the fish and other items that spur quick growth? I’ve had trouble keeping painteds with musks, small snappers, spotteds and other slow feeders. Try moving the painted to a plastic container/bucket for feeding – it should adjust quickly – and feed the musk in its aquarium. This will help with water quality also.
A half inch growth is perhaps a bit slow, but not cause for concern; musks grow more slowly than painteds; males mature at a far smaller size than females and may grow slower as well (too early to determine sex, however).
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hi Frank! Last time I saw your artical talking about GoldenShiner can be fed as bait, but I am confused wheather this kind of fish can be used as a bait for Mata.
I read an artical about Thiaminase. Gold fish, Cyprinidae, Corydoradinae, and Crucian Carp have lots of Thiaminase, and does not recommend to feed our turtles. However, GoldenShinner is the family of Cyrinidae. Is it ok to feed our turtle with them?
On the otherhand, Swordtail, Platyfish, Molly, Tetra, and Cichlids is much safer.
Please let me know if I am wrong. Thanks for your time.
Hello Eric, Frank Indiviglio here.
You raise an excellent point, thanks. Actually, a co-worker of mine uncovered the goldfish problem many years ago. We are not sure if Thiaminase is the actual problem, but matas fed a steady goldfish diet usually die after 5 years or so….many zoos have now confirmed this. Shiners and other minnows are related to goldfishes, but are fine as a long-term diet; also, as you mention, typical aquarium species, especially those from S. America. Try for as much variety as possible. I have seined for fish in Mata mata habitat – a single pull of a 6 foot net can yield dozens of fish species, so they likely are adapted to a very varied diet (but field studies are lacking, unfortunately…maybe a project for you someday!?).
Please see this article on Goldfish diets and related topics (the huge Mata I’m holding in the photo was purchased at a food market in Guyana or Surinam, I forget which at the moment).
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hi Frank!
Yeah! I have interest in reptiles, It’s cool to examine creatures in the isolate place, but Taiwan is too far away from the US. So sad haha…
Hello Eric, Frank Indiviglio here.
Yes…I think it’s both good and bad that the world is so big and complicated!
Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hi frank, I have two stink pots, I have had them about 2 years and think they were probably 6-12 months when I got them, I’m pretty sure I have a male and female, I had to seperate them a while ago as the male was super aggressive trying to mate with female and made her shell bleed!! They are ok now and back together. She has rapidly grown lately and I’m wondering if she is pregnant? Is there any way to tell for sure and how long is the gestation period? She was smaller than the male and is now bigger in a short space of time :/
If she is, do I need to change the tank for her? I have scooped all the small gravel to one corner to form a ‘beach’
Thank you
Lisa (England)
Hello Lisa
Thanks for your interest. Aggression is a common problem, making it very hard to keep pairs together long term. In captivity, mating behavior seems not to be controlled by the seasons, so you’ll need to keep an eye on them year-round; fighting unrelated to breeding can occur as well.
If you can arrange it, the best set-up is to position a plastic sweater box or similar container, with one side cut mostly away for access, within the aquarium. Silicone adhesive is useful if you cannot wedge it in, or balance it on a gravel beach. Add a few inches of topsoil and some dead leaves, and keep slightly moist. An overhead light, to warm the area, may help, but is not always necessary. You can also place her in a plastic storage container/garbage can with soil, etc., but this may stress her – usually works best when female in restless and obviously searching for a nest site. They often deposit the eggs (2-6) on or close to the surface, w/o digging very much. She may use the beach you describe.
It’s difficult to know if eggs are present; size is not an indication (females get quite a bit larger than males, in general; males have a concave plastron and a longer, thicker tail). Developing eggs can sometimes be felt if you prod with a finger along the body cavity near the rear legs…takes practice, and is difficult with small species. A radiograph by a vet will show them, but is only necessary if turtle is restless, trying to lay, not feeing, etc. Oxytosin injections will cause her to pass the eggs. Egg retention can be fatal, but musks tend to pass them even w/o a suitable nest site.
She may also drop them in the water…do not discard if this happens, as they can take some submersion; send a note if you find them and we can discuss incubation.
Gestation is difficult to judge, as most turtles can store sperm and also seem able to delay egg-formation/laying if conditions are not right; also always a chance of an un-noticed mating, prior to the fighting. It’s often given as 30-45 days, but not very helpful in my experience.
There are some turtle tubs (i.e. by ZooMed) that provide swimming and nesting areas; most are large, but can be very useful if you plan on keeping them long-term; let me know if you need product links.
The eggs are very hardy and often hatch (we can discuss set-up); the hatchlings are tiny, and great fun to raise, so I hope it works out.
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Thank you for your fast response and for all the info. I’ll let you know if she lays any eggs!
Hello Lisa
My pleasure…I look forward to hearing about the eggs!
Please let me know if you need any further information. Good luck, enjoy and please keep me posted.
Best regards, Frank Indiviglio.
Hey Mr. Idiviglio,
I wanted to know if you knew of any good sites that sell Musk turtles? Especially ones with cheap shipping, the best I could find was under $20. Or, even better, adoption sites where I can get one for free. Actually, any place where I can get on for free would be good.
Since these guys stay pretty small I figured they’d be a good Back to Turtles Project, along with my monitor. Been years since I’ve had turtles. Thanks
Cheers, Alex
Hi Alex,
You can check here for adoptions: http://www.turtleforum.com/forum/upload/index.php?s=b9cd927c43acfb8cca2f9596d3666806&showforum=89; if you go to the site’s homepage, you’ll also find classified/for sale ads. Local herp societies usually have adoption services as well.
Re price, best not to look for the cheapest animals, as they will likely be wild caught. Also not a good idea to skimp on shipping – you’ll want the seller to use the fastest and most efficient carrier. Shipping problems/losses are common when one tries to save money on shipping. In any event, I’ve never seen any shipping method priced below $20.
Please keep me posted, enjoy, Frank
Well, as it turns out, there aren’t any Musks for adoption at that forum, but there is one at the local reptile store (the last place I looked). What would be the “further details” about their captive care?
Cheers, Alex
Hi Alex,
The info in this article is generally applicable, with a few changes:
Musks do not need UVB, although it will do no harm.
Water temperatures can be lower if desired – 72-75 is fine
They do not need plants or vegetables in the diet
Please let me know if you need more information, Best, Frank
Hi, thank you for providing so much wonderful information about musks! I have a hatchling about 1 1/2″ that escaped from his tank sometime over the weekend (do to the filters suctions not holding and causing the filter to lower so he could climb out). He was found on Monday (today) morning and put in his tank, but just seems very sluggish. He wont eat the pellets he usually loves, but would go for the frozen bloodworms, though he didn’t eat as much as he would normally. Today he mostly sat on the bottom and kind of looked like he was sleeping. He also seems to be going to the surface for air every 5-10min or so, which is way more often than he used to. He is usually VERY active during he day, and I am concerned that he may have gotten an URI from being out of the water for a couple days in a not so warm room (maybe around 70 f or less). How long would it take his little body to warm up after being back in his water (80f)? I left his heat lamp on tonight just in case, but he never sticks more than his head out of the water, even though he could if he wanted to. I don’t want to over react, but I don’t want to ignore warning signs either. I checked him over and all his limbs move fine, he swims fine, and I don’t see any damage to his shell from the fall (2-3ft, depending on where he “jumped” from). I did notice when I picked him up after he had been in the water about 2 hours, he didn’t “fight” me like he normally does (struggling to get away), he just tucked himself in his shell, and opened his mouth (he has never done this, not that I pick him up very often). Was that a defensive mechanism or was he having trouble breathing? When he is in his tank, I don’t notice any open mouth breathing.. Sorry this is a bit rambling, I just don’t want to leave out anything that may be important. Thanks for any input you can give me.
Hi Mishele,
Thanks for the kind words. The immune system can become depressed when they are chilled, but 60-70F shouldn’t cause any problems, as they routinely remain active at such temps in the wild. They are quite aware of their environment, and subject to stress when things change (hard to imagine with reptiles sometimes, I know, but a real concern, documanted by blood tests, hormone levels , etc) The turtle may just need time to adjust…at that size,, they are on the menu of many predators, and so are generally shy (until well adjusted to captivity). Plants etc. to hide below may be useful, and don;t worry about feeding too much – digestion and all may take some time to re-adjust to higher temps; disturb as little as possible.
The combination of rapid temperature changes and stress can depress the immune system, but I’ve not sen this in common musks. If the animal does not come around in time, or declines in condition, a vet visit would be in order. Pl keep me posted, and let me know if you need further info, good luck, best, Frank
Hi Frank;
I’d like to know if your 4…3(?) years old Sternotherus is ok and It’s amazing that a tiny turtle like that, lived so long.
Also I would like to know if you let her (I guess) hibernate for winters or not. Thank you and sorry for my english.. I’m Italian.
Hi Giulio,
Thanks for your interest. The turtle is now 43 years old; when I last checked, there was one aged 51 at the Philadelphia zoo; we’re nor sure how long they can lice. Several American Box Turtles have been documented as living for just over 100 years.
I do not put the turtle (yes, female) into hibernation, as this can be tricky in captivity. In the past, temperatures were allowed to drop to 20 C or so in winter, but she once developed a respiratory infection (immune system slows down in col weather); I now keep her at 25C in winter, room temps (warmer) in summer. best regards, Frank
Hi Frank
I have got to say, reading all these comments has been very useful
I’m planning on getting a turtle (i’m 18), but i have realized a big turtle will get out of hand. But Musk turtles seem to be quiet small, with the ideal size of 4 inches. I am very much wanting a turtle, it was a spontaneous decision and now with all the turtle research i’m doing i’m growing more and more confident i want a turtle pet. and a small musk turtle seems perfect.
My questions are:
a) From what i’ve said is a musk turtle a good idea for size or is there another turtle i should look at, and if a musk, what kind of musk? (I want the smallest turtle i can get).
b) I live in Brisbane, Queensland Australia and idk how easily i will be able to find a musk turtle in pet stores and i was wondering what your advice would be if i wanted to find one, or a different small turtle in Queensland.
All help would be very appreciated
Hi Luke,
Thanks for the kind words. I always recommend common musk turtles as they are “extra hardy”, but with the exception of the Mexican Giant Musk, all related species (and the mud turtles) are quite small, and most do well in captivity. You can read about some of them, including the Mexican, here (the 70 year old individual I mention in the article came from a zoo in Australia).
Australia has quite strict rules regarding the importation of foreign animals, so it may be difficult to find a musk turtle. Contacts there tell me that the most commonly seen turtles in the pet trade are some of the snake-necks (Genus Chelodina), especially the Eastern Long-Necked Turtle; they are hardy but very active and most get large…they need more space than other large turtles; those I’ve kept were always in motion. Perhaps there is a local turtle interest group near you?…such folks will have information on locally available species, or may even have breeders among their members. I can’t think of ay off-hand, but if you have trouble finding group let me know and I’ll check my contacts, best, Frank
Hi Frank,
At what age (size) could I expect our common musk turtles shells to smooth out? We recently aquired two that are about 2″ – 2 1/2″ and the person I had got them from said she had them for atleast two years. I’m concerned that they may be stunted or a little behind in growing.
We have had them for just under a week and I love these little buggers. We also have a rescued RES that we ador as well.
Any advice greatly appreciated!
Hi Rich,
I’m not sure what you mean by smooth out, but at that age they should be larger. However, turtles can re-start the growth process once fed correctly and given ample room. Please let me know if you need any info on diet, etc.
Enjoy, Best, Frank
I just meant to ask what age their shells normally went smooth and flat and the juvenile ridge’s disappear.
They are both small for their age in my opinion as I expected them to be much larger than when I picked them up. I have them in a 20 gallon quaranteen tank and I’m working on an indoor pond around 55-60 gallons for future.
I just hope they aren’t stunted.
Hi Rich,
I’m not sure about the ridge timing; they may begin growing normally in time- no hard/fast rules, unfortunately. Small whole minnows, earthworms, Reptomin, freeze dried shrimp, and trout chow work well as basis of diet.
Pl keep me posted, Best, Frank